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I never went to music school. I had my

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miserable two weeks of piano lessons.

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But the more I s of do this, the more

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I think it's it it really is about

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learning how to listen. I mean, for all

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musicians. And I think if you observe

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musicians working together,

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you take it for granted that they can

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play their instrument, but what happens

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is that they actually really learned how

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to listen. And just because that's not

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so visually obvious, it might be more of

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a secret.

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Um, I can I can orchestrate. I can, you

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know, wield I can, you know, I I can

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wield pen and paper and actually come up

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with a fairly decent orchestration

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without ever having gone to music

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school. But I learned that as a kid

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listening into the music,

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um, finding the balances. But I think

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you know if you extend this outwards now

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and you sit there with your director and

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the game I play is hey tell me the

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story.

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I listen to his words and I listen to

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the story but I try to listen beyond it

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as well. You know I try to you know no

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director ever tells you no good director

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ever attempts to tell you what music to

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write. So, what you're doing is you're

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trying to figure out you're trying to

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listen to the subtext. You're you're

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forever listening into the heart of the

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thing. Um,

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I think if if if there's anything I'm I

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learned is is I've learned how to listen

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better.

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And including myself, I mean, you know,

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like you you're playing something on the

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keyboard and you're playing what

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ostensibly is the wrong note, but it's

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not. It's gold. It's the opportunity.

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It's the unlocking of a door to

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something your fingers weren't going to

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take you to. And if you don't listen,

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you're going to miss it. Because if

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you're not listening

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to the other players, you're never going

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to go and get that impetus and you're

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never going to have a conversation.

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And

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at the end of the day, I do think it's

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about communication.

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And

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even though I have a big mouth and I

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find it difficult to keep it shut,

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you know, when when we develop these

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ideas, when we develop what this thing

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is,

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I'm trying to listen beyond the words.

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You know, I'm trying to not hear the

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words. I'm trying to hear the tune.

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Gar said it best. There are only two

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types of music. Good music and bad

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music. But I think

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if I have to teach somebody something,

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the only thing I can teach them is

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whatever that piece is you love, really

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go look at it from many different

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directions. You know, with me it was odd

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things like Mara Second. I I was

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fascinated by that. I mean, I I I would

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just take that apart for, you know, for

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like a year. I would just listen to it

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and get obsessed with it and

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you know discover and more and more

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about the process and I suppose if you

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want to Mara was one of my teachers

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because I learned a lot from it later on

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it was things like Bio Symphony

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Fantastic um where he's taking you

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through this tragic love story and it

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goes wild and it goes crazy and I very

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quickly realized as well that there was

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there you know that there's a part in it

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where he goes to the Diaz array which is

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a

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piece of church music written in 1256. I

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happen to know these to other people

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useless facts. Okay. If you take the DZ

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array which is da da da really simple

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set of notes it appears it creeps

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through

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you know the the evolution of music. It

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keeps reappearing in different

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composers's music, you know. Then I

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heard it obviously for me it was the

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first time I heard it in the barios but

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you know list used it then you know when

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you get to the film composers Bernard

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Herman John Williams it's all over close

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encounters you know it's it's you know

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and and I suddenly realized this this

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phrase meant something. It meant

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something that we couldn't express in

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words that people hadn't, you know,

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maybe Heronimos Bosch had it in a

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painting. I don't know. There was

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something about it that struck um an era

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chord, a fundamental and iconic chord

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and and and and even though we couldn't

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quite describe it,

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we knew it meant something. It was a

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call. It was some sort of a call. And of

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course so much of music is that it's

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it's you know it's um it's a

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conversation it's a call it's a

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storytelling part. I didn't listen to it

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in an academic way. I listened it p to

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it purely in what was it telling me and

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what you know what buttons was it

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pushing in me that would unleash some

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imagination. And I see that these

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pieces, this piece keeps appearing in

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um people's film music and it appears in

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other pieces of classical music. And I

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suddenly realized that there are phrases

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in music that mean something. They

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really do mean something and they push a

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button in us, an emotional button in us.

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When I go and see a movie, I don't

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dissect the score. I start dissecting it

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when it's not working. Why is it not

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working? Um, you know, it's like I see I

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see a movie as a whole and um and and if

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it transports me, then everything does,

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you know, and so I suppose if I think

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about it afterwards, it is exactly the

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way I go about writing, which is, you

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know, hang on, did the colors in the

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music match the colors on the screen?

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Did the mood

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in the music

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enhance, transport, you know, add

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something or, you know, was it just

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doing the same thing as everything else

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in the scene, you know, you know, was

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there contrast? was that, you know,

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there's so many different ways

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of playing a scene. You know, you you

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you can either

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you sometimes you can get the most out

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of I mean, we were talking about, you

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know, I got into this because I loved

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Once Upon a Time in the West

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and your Morris Con score and it's, you

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know, it's electric guitars and they're

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completely anacronistic. you know, we're

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talking about the late 19th century. Um,

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and it never occurred to me that that

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sound hadn't been invented at that

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point. It's just because he boldly puts

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it in front of me and I, you know, he's

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totally committed when he does it. So, I

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never question it. When I saw Jaws,

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I thought, you know, the twoote thing

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every that everybody goes on about.

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Yeah, that's great. That's a great idea.

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It's a one idea sort of thing. And then

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what happens in that score after that is

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absolutely pure magic. And it's it's

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it's it's like an orchestration

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firework. And it's just imaginative

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beyond belief. And you know, the tuba

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does things tubers aren't supposed to

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do. And it's it's it's it's fantastic.

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So that's what you know, where the geek

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musician suddenly comes in. Um,

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but as a whole, I mean, it's it's like

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you hone your ear to the to to the less

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obvious bits. You suddenly go, "Oh, the

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B theme in Raiders is really gorgeous.

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That might not be the main tune, you

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know, everybody can remember the obvious

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one,

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you know, but it's it's the next bit

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that happens that's got the heart and

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that's got the tension in it and that's

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got that tells you

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so, you know, that that that has a

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nostalgic quality that isn't quite as

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overt. Um, and so I think part of what

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what I do is by looking at the movies

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that entertain me is to figure out why

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do they entertain me and why does the

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music entertain me? And it usually is

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because

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quietly and subtly and not in the overt

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way. There's something going on that is

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um beautifully crafted. I mean, I'm

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talking about a, you know, I'm talking

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about any John Williams score, for

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instance, at the moment or any any Moric

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Coney score, any Jack Goldmith score.

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Um, or any Johnny Greenwood score. I

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mean, that that you know, you you

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suddenly go,

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it's it goes beyond the obvious where

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you can pinpoint the idea and or you can

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sing the hook. There's something else,

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you know, that goes on with great

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craftsmanship and great love and great

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um

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just elegance.

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So first film I saw probably the most

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shocking experience of my life wasn't a

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film at all was I might have been 2 and

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a half or 3 years old. My mom took me to

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the opera and I saw Mozart,

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you know, the magic fruit and it just

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blew my socks off and I thought this is

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pretty amazing. And I stuck with Mozart

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for a while. So Mozart became a big

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influence.

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um soon to be followed by Beethovven

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somewhere along the line Mara's second

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symphony and all these amazing pieces of

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music and I I never segregated between

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you know the this is concert music and

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this is film music because somewhere

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along the way um Nino Rotor and Enya

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Moriconi slipped onto the scene and so

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probably the greatest influence when it

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comes to film composers um was without a

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doubt um anymore and I think I'm just

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still to this day a crazed fan of his um

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because his tunes are fantastic, his

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craftsmanship is fantastic, the

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discipline he puts into it is fantastic

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and then the

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complete disregard of any rules is

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fantastic. And at the end of the day,

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you know, somewhere in the center of it,

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holding it all together is his

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incredible passion and love and

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understanding for Bach. So in a funny

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way, I don't think any of us would be

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doing it without Bach, you know. So he's

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a cornerstone.

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And I can go on like this because then

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of course you have Povia and you have

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Shustakovich and you have all the

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Russian guys. And

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I think what happened was as a kid

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growing up without a television had its

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advantage, which was

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I had a piano and I had records. Records

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were black things with a hole in the

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middle. It's it's a very old-fashioned

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thing, but you can listen to music on

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it. Um, and every week we would go and

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see a concert and every week I was

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thrilled and excited and

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exposed to something which was

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absolutely and utterly magical.

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And so I grew up really with classical

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music and listening to classical music

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intensely. And I suppose I learned my

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orchestration or any any chops or

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anything just just by listening. And and

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what better way to learn than than going

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to a concert and watching an orchestra?

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What better learned way to learn than

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going to an opera and seeing um amazing

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performance? What better way to learn

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than all day long to be surrounded by

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Beethoven and Bach etc. And the rest of

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the influences in my life really are

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that I was extraordinarily bad at

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anything that involved discipline or

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school or rules. And it's very very

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tough to grow up in Germany if you have

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an a disdain and an allergy to

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authority. So you can't help yourself.

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You got to rebel and you get kicked out

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of school. And the only so the only

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thing left for me and I think that's

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quite sometimes not a bad thing is I had

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no options but to become a musician.

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I don't listen to a lot of film schools.

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Um cuz that's like a busman's holiday.

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Do you know it's like that's what I

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that's what I'm do all day long. So why

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would I want to do that when I go home?

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Um, what I want to do when I go home is

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I want to go and listen to Beethoven or

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Mozart or the Beatles or BB King or, you

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know, right now I'm listening to a lot

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of classical music because what I'm

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working on is the opposite to classical

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music. I always have to listen to things

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which have sort of nothing to do with

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what what I'm working on are not related

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to the style I'm working on, you know.

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Then I have

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binges of, you know, weird punk phases

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or binges of electronica or binges of

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EDM or what, you know, it's it's like

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suddenly I'm hunting down every great

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blues guitarist or whatever, you know.

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So I go on these lengthy,

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you know, being in love with a certain

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genre and then go somewhere else, you

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know. I I I always thought, you know, if

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you really need to get a rounded

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education in music and you don't know

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where to start, just start with the

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bees. Just go through the bees, you

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know, just go through barriers, bles,

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uh, you know, banjo music. I mean, just

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just go on just just just go on. I mean,

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the point is you'll find something

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you'll find something which touches you

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personally and which means something to

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you personally and then build on that.

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There are few scores which sort of

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I thought were revolutionary and truly

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moved film music along. Um, you know,

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everybody talks about the obvious ones

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like Psycho, etc. or Picopia, um,

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Alexander Nefki and Yeah, that's

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absolutely true. But then I got sort of

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scores like Midnight Express, Georgie

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Mara. I thought the opening scene was

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the inhuman sequence that just going. It

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was s such a brilliant I such a

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brilliant idea by the director to

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realize that the scariest thing is a

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machine where you don't you where you

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don't realize the humanity in it. I mean

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it's it's it's the machine like quality

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that doesn't give you pointers what's

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going to happen next which makes it so

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scary. Um, I think again, you know, Enya

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Moriconei, Once Upon a Time in America,

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not Once Upon a Time in the West, which

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was the first thing I saw, but Once Upon

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a Time in America is is extraordinary

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because the whole score

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is basically a downer. There isn't a

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fast piece in it. You know, it it it's a

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gangster movie and he writes slow,

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heartfelt music, and he just manages to

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put a nostalgia and a and and and a

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grace and a uh soul into this movie.

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That is absolutely incredible.

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Um,

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yes. I mean, I loved Hannah. I thought

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Chemical Brothers is it's it's one of my

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favorite scores because I think it's

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great. It's great music. It's great film

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music. It's incredibly cinematic. It's

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quirky. And it's epic all at the same

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time. And it's got a point of view. And

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I think those are qualities which which

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are necessary to pull off a decent film